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Some Ground Rules

Updated 6/19/06

There's been a huge increase in readers of this blog since last winter. And while that's fantastic in the sense that more opinions makes for more interesting and stimulating dialog, there are some things which a larger community brings that we (Jay and I) wish to stay away from.

  1. Political talk. This is a baseball blog, not a political one. Fans who read this blog come from all points in the political spectrum, but have one thing in common: they are Indians fans. That's the community we want to cultivate here at Let's Go Tribe: a group of diverse individuals who love talking to each other about the Indians and baseball. Political debate is not something we want to bring into this community.
  2. Personal attacks. In other words, steer clear of "you're an idiot" or "you suck." A good rule of thumb: attack a poster's ideas, not the poster himself/herself. We want this place to be somewhere where people can debate various topics with civility, not a demolition derby.
  3. Trolling/flame-baiting. Trolling shouldn't be too much of an issue now that registration is required, but I wish to avoid flame-baiting as well. Posting incendiary content (posting "Sabathia is a fat slob" multiple times would qualify) in order to get a reaction out of other posters will not be tolerated.
  4. Profanity. Avoid the Seven Dirty Words, and you'll be fine.
  5. Comment Spam. This is dumping a bunch of links into a comment in order to boost a site's search engine ranking. First offense: banishment.
  6. Sock Puppets. These are users with multiple accounts. This hasn't happened all that often, but we'd like to nip this in the bud before it becomes a bigger problem. If you've forgotten your password, e-mail us and we'll send you a reminder. Don't create a new account.
  7. Blatant Site Pimping. Don't miscontrue the title; we have absolutely no problem with users mentioning their sites/blogs here, and in particular posting a FanShot with a link to one of your articles. The larger the Indians blogoshere, the better for all involved. But please do not post content verbatim from your website or blog.  Post a proper FanShot link, and you'll get traffic. If you've started a new blog and would like to be added to our Indians Blogroll, please e-mail either of us.  Provided the blog (a) is relevant, (b) has original content, and (c) is updated regularly, we'll be happy to include it.

 

These ground rules are meant as a guideline only. Once in a while, we may find it necessary to ban someone from use of the site. Although we tend to be fairly hands-off as moderators, decisions about conduct and banning are entirely at our discretion, and the ground rules above may or may not apply to those decisions. We may suspend a user's account any time we find that, in our judgment, that will make the site more enjoyable, more successful and more fan-friendly overall.

If you have ANY questions about the items on this list, e-mail either of us.

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Re: Some Ground Rules
No probs here Ryan, I much prefer a civil debate that occurs in here than the hatemongering that normally shows up on the message boards (i.e. CBSportsline).

I am surprised I heave yet to get a reply to my A's trade possibilites tho ;)

by talonk on Jan 25, 2006 6:45 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
In Frank Thomas diary post that is ....

by talonk on Jan 25, 2006 6:51 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
This is one of the best sites around, and if you need to put one of us in our place to keep it that way. I have no problem with that.
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Jan 25, 2006 6:52 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
May I continue making bad jokes and having an unnatural displeasure at the presence of Casey Blake in the line-up?

by rog on Jan 25, 2006 7:40 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
Yes, as long as they are tasteful and creative.

by Ryan on Jan 25, 2006 10:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
Johnny: "Casey Blake is soo bad..."

Ed: "How bad is he?"

by mkwng on Jan 26, 2006 9:26 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
Good job fellas.  Keepin' it clean keeps this site the best Indians blog going - Is Joe (CIR) okay?.  Politics has become so polarizing that I don't even discuss it any more.  Your rules will keep this a place where intelligent, unemotional discourse can stay free and and unfettered.  Again, thank you.

by stuart dean on Jan 25, 2006 8:44 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
This is a very good site for debating indians topics and I will definatly recommend it to some of my fellow indians fans. Other than those few people that have critized me personal I think that most people have valid point and are looking at things with some good perceptive. Keep up the good work.

by tribeinne on Jan 25, 2006 10:01 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
Love this site and most of the fans who visit.  Thanks for being such excellent moderators.  Every site that I've ever had a hand in managing always seem to have a few "unsavory" elements.  Good luck with the weeding.  Go Tribe!

by drerikbrady on Jan 26, 2006 9:17 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
I assume personal attacks covers only posters, not attacks on players?

Everyone needs to bash Jason Johnson and the bullpen on occasion.  It helps keep the sanity.

Heh

by Mark on Jun 20, 2006 8:47 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
Great ideas all. But if the indians keep playing like this, no one will be visiting ANY Tribe sites!

But that 100 best Indians replay was nice in the rain delay last night.

by swarty on Jun 20, 2006 8:51 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
To play the devils advocate...
"Brandini, it is time to check yourself."
"And that was the smart part of your post."
"but obviously that is too subtle a contribution for you to detect."
-Jay
Tuesday June 20, 2006 @ 1:49am
"Brandini, you're descending into kneejerk pessimism here."
"might get away with crap like that elsewhere"
-Jay
Monday June 19, 2006 @ 1:31pm

Most of those rules you posted are common knowledge.  However if you are intended on posting rules please make sure that you abide by them yourselves.  This is not "calling you out" this is simply showing you that some of the comments made in MY direction haven't been the most kind and have been more of a demolition derby then an intelligent conversation.  Again, I have no complaints, just wondering if the rules apply for everyone?
Oh, not to be rude, but when posting "comments" or "ideas" could Jay not shut them down as being WRONG.  It didn't take a baseball IQ test to get an account here, so lets not be condescending.

by Brandini on Jun 20, 2006 9:04 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
Again, I have no complaints, just wondering if the rules apply for everyone?

Yes, the rules do apply to everyone. And yes, some of the rhetoric has been over-the-top in the past couple days. I'm chalking it up to frustration on the team's play, but I don't want things to get carried away.

It didn't take a baseball IQ test to get an account here, so lets not be condescending.

No, but if you allow people to say anything they want, eventually they will. I've seen many message boards (literally) go down in flames because there was no moderating presence. You (and I don't mean you personally) don't have to post here if you don't want to; there are plenty of other places where you can vent to your heart's content.

by Ryan on Jun 20, 2006 9:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
Thanks Ryan
Don't take it as an attack, I was just curious.  This board/website is INCREDIBLE.  After a lousy day at work it is one of the first things I do when I get home.
My point at the baseball IQ was in regards to some of the "maybe you don't know what OPS" comments that were being thrown around earlier.

In any event, this is an excellent website and I wish both of you luck in continuing to keep this site alive and the comments moderated.

by Brandini on Jun 20, 2006 4:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
I want to respond to this directly.

I read today with disgust letters published by the Plain Dealer about the Indians.  The PD editors printed things they knew were not true, or were misleading, about the Indians, written by people who understand little or nothing about the situation.  (And no I will not provide a link.)  The only reason to do that is sensationalism.  It lends no understanding or enjoyment to anyone's season.  It is destructive at worst to any fan's understanding of what has happened to their team.  At best it is pointless.

There is a slippery slope here:

Expressing frustration.
Exaggerating things out of proportion.
Outright player-hating, manager-hating, GM-hating.
Taking events out of context.
Distorting the facts.
Actually getting the facts wrong.
Getting the facts wrong repeatedly even when corrected.

All of these things are antagonizing to other forum contributors (and moderators) to some extent.  At the top of the list, we all need to vent, and venting togetheer is a positive function of this forum.  The bottom half of the list is the kind of garbage printed in the PD, which can be found in any number of other web sites.

If that's what you want to read, my sincere advice to is to go find one of them.

I don't believe that anyone does want to read that stuff.  I believe that beyond a certain point, is self-indulgent on the part of the author and antagonistic of other readers.  In my view, it is really not any different from trolling (see #3 above).  More to the point, it is destructive to the goal of having a site with high quality Tribe talk.

Here at Let's Go Tribe, we have exercised very little control over the user-generated content -- which on the whole is almost shockingly good.  It is basically a Tribe discussion paradise here, unparalleled on the Internet as far as I've seen.  We censor almost nothing and have only ever banned one person -- in fact have only ever discussed banning one person.

As a result, occasionally somebody will cross the line into trolling, baiting, hating, flaming, stupidity, whatever you might want to call it.  Like the PD, we do essentially publish those remarks, however passively.  Unlike the PD, we here -- all of us -- put those comments in their proper context, by calling people out when the things they post are mistaken, or foolish, or hateful, or just plain crazy.

As your lovely co-host, arguably I should refrain from doing most of the calling out.  Clearly there are plenty of other folks here who are capable of it.  That said, the group in general looks to Ryan and me and to set the tone -- and to keep obnoxious users' excesses in line.  We field requests to ban users, limit the length of posts, ban emoticons or signatures, establish a user rating system, block users, etc.

Despite our fairly strong "open forum" stance, there are those who confuse the occasional smackdown (or ban) with suppression of their freedom of expression.  They say we don't apply the same rules to people we disagree with, etc.  But this is a cop-out.  Folks here strongly disagree here almost every hour of the day.  We also influence one another -- and we correct each other, usually gently.  Because usually a gentle correction is all that is necessary.  This flows in every direction.

I believe that any user who is making even a slight effort not to be an antagonizing jackass -- beating on the same inflammatory point over and over again, getting facts wrong repeatedly and deliberately -- is going to be treated civilly here.  Ideally, even treated with kindness and respect.

I believe if we were to act any other way, eventually we would be no better than the other forums.

by Jay on Jun 20, 2006 4:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
jay...as a newspaper editor myself, i can empathize. our 'guest view' and letters to the editor pages constitute hard fought turf, and one in which your don'ts list certainly applies. of course, that leads to charges that we're biased etc., but what are you gonna do? when you run the store, you make the rules.  

by mikehudson on Jun 20, 2006 5:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one." -- A.J. Liebling, never gets old.

Anyone who puts their views and decisions out in the public leaves himself open to public criticism.  It comes with the territory.  In fact, it's heatlhy.

by Jay on Jun 20, 2006 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
You are an editor and you don't go crazy from typing without capital letters? That's impressive to me!

by Jeffrey R on Jun 20, 2006 6:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
jeff...when typing for money, i do use capital letters. i try not to make as many spelling errors either. jay...that liebling quote is exactly true.

by mikehudson on Jun 20, 2006 8:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
The problem is...
With the SPECIFIC instance you are refering to (Peralta and Cora), you couldn't see my point.  You kept referring to a point that had very little to do with what I was talking about(30 of 40).  The fact was, I was posting a true statistic that you didn't agree with.  It was MY opinion that since the playing time was split RIGHT up the middle, that Cora was infact "blocking" Peralta.  It was ALSO my opinion that ad Cora not fallen off the table in May, POSSIBLY he would still be with the team and POSSIBLY Peralta wouldn't have hit that 30 of 40 game mark that you brought up several times.

So to follow the rules...
Please do not tell someone they are WRONG for stating an opinion when they have evidence to back it up.  EVEN IF your evidence makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, OBVIOUSLY the person is posting their opinion thinking it is right.  You also need not be so condescending with your tone and expressions (ie. "jackass").  If you don't like the persons opinion, ignore it.  Sometimes I like to sing a song to myself along the lines of "just don't look, just don't look".

by Brandini on Jun 20, 2006 7:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
For the last time.  You have the facts wrong.  Peralta started 15 games at shortstop in April, Cora started 8.

Cora got into nine other April games in which Peralta started at shortstop, as a pinch-hitter, pinch runner, starting 2B, or replacement in LF.

Your statements that Cora was blocking Peralta are based on an incorrect assumption:  that all of Cora's playing time came at Peralta's expense.  About half of it did not.

We do not have a difference of opinion, you are mistaken about the facts.  I would respect a difference of opinion.

by Jay on Jun 20, 2006 7:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
As an impartial observer to this dispute, I have to say, Brandini, that it does not appear to me that you have any facts right.

by Jeffrey R on Jun 20, 2006 8:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
My mistake...
Its amazing that Peralta started 15 of the next 17 games though...Are you sure you have YOUR facts straight?
In the end, Cora still took at bats away from Peralta, there is no denying that.  Possibly it was a good thing, like Peraltas 3 day rest last week that has churned out a hot streak.  The fact is, the Indians have a HUGE window, why not get some rookies out there(even 1 this year would have made me happy) rather then sitting on a team that at its BEST was 2 games out of the wild card.  This division is only going to get more tough.  The Tigers are looking great for the next 5-6 years, you have to assume the Royals will be good in 3 years, Ken Williams is the best GM of all time and the Twins are going to have the best 1-2 punch in the league.  I would think if there is any time to get these young kids their playing time, it would be now.

So I was wrong about Cora blocking Peralta, I thought it was more extreme then it was.  I was looking at a one month time frame, where as Jay was originially looking a close to two months.  It appeared as though he was being "blocked".  Oh well...

by Brandini on Jun 20, 2006 10:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7156&year=2005

I count 15 starts for Jhonny in April.  In May, he didn't start (but pinch hit) on the 4th, and didn't play at all on the 7th, but didn't sit out again until the 18th.

by mkwng on Jun 20, 2006 11:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
All of this was posted multiple times over the last 24 hours and you only bother to read it after trying to make out one of the moderators of this forum as engaging in inappropriate behavior on his own website.

The absolute, number one problem on this, and most all internet forums, is that people do not take time to read and understand what others posted. It leads to an incredible amount of repetition and the sort of ridiculous situation that is happening right now.

If you want to engage in any kind of serious discussion on something that's heavily stats based you need to not only look the stats up yourself but also be willing to look at the evidence others collect.

by afh4 on Jun 20, 2006 11:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
It actually is a mistake that any of us could have made -- I too was surprised to see that Cora had a couple more at bats (but fewer plate appearances!) than Peralta last April.  But I remembered it differently, so I dug deeper to figure it out.

I did mis-state/mis-count Peralta's playing a little at some point.  Peralta appeared in 30 of the first 40 games but only started in 28 of the first 38.  I had stated before that Peralta started in 30 of the first 40.

by Jay on Jun 21, 2006 12:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
uhh, this thread is about ground rules. are you baiting posters to make 'em look like hypocrites? my turn: you're off the map in every respect. badly. "just don't look, just don't look". maybe you should, you know, take a look around?

by homelytourist on Jun 20, 2006 11:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
That made zero sense...Please re post.

by Brandini on Jun 21, 2006 8:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
eh, i had been drinkin' a little and i don't remember what i was getting at.  

by homelytourist on Jun 21, 2006 6:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
You were drinking while watching the Tribe and writing messages on the best Indians blog ?

No one here does that.

by SpringTrainingFun on Jun 22, 2006 10:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
hey if the tribe's on, i'm drinkin'.

by homelytourist on Jun 22, 2006 8:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
I'm drinking right now.

by Jay on Jun 22, 2006 8:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
a tall can of old stlye, chicago's finest beer IMO, is much like this white sox team. it delivers much more than you expect.

by homelytourist on Jun 22, 2006 8:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
as i wrote jay recently, this board has been the most baseball fun i've had this misbegotten season -- except for the opening day road trip, which is another story. so thanks guys. all of us are a little frayed, as are the radio & tv announcers. i guess a little jabbing is to be expected.

by mikehudson on Jun 20, 2006 11:28 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Some Ground Rules
This board has been, to me, a steadying force in a season of uncertainty.  I can't tell you how refreshing it has been to find this forum when Ryan came over from InsideTheComp, full of informed opinions from people who feel just as passionately about the Indians as I do.

I've never understood the negativity of the media or other message boards (other than that it's easier to throw stones than build a bridge with them), and marvel at the ability of the contributors of the site to keep an even keel throughout a rough season.

This site (along with the ever-steady writing of Terry Pluto) is the first place I go when I think about throwing in the proverbial towel.

Thanks for the intelligence, optimism, and tireless research that everyone on this site contributes.

Let's keep it going.

by The DiaTriber on Jun 20, 2006 9:44 PM EDT   0 recs

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